It has been some time since videogames had been extra than simply action-filled, nerve-wracking experiences. Steel Gear Stable mastermind Hideo Kojima’s Dying Stranding established the 2 opposites of division and connection as its themes throughout a pre-pandemic world, and its extremely conceptual story construction and modern delivery- centered motion mechanics blew open new prospects.
Now in its sequel, Dying Stranding 2: On the Seaside, he poses the identical query in an much more difficult kind: “Ought to we now have linked?” With its June 26, 2025 launch shortly approaching, we needed to know what sort of place Kojima had taken when creating its story now that the divisions in our world solely proceed to develop.
The event of Dying Stranding 2 proceeded below the unprecedented circumstances of the Covid pandemic. How precisely did Kojima rethink the which means of “connection” and reconstruct it whereas being pressured to reckon along with his understanding of know-how, manufacturing environments, and the character of our
relationships with each other?
On this interview, Kojima talks about his philosophy framing the sport’s manufacturing, what was left behind within the earlier recreation and carried on to the brand new one, and modern society and its relationship to his video games.
New Places and New Parts
IGN: What had been you making an attempt to perform for Dying Stranding’s sequel?
Kojima: I would prefer to ask you to suppose again to the start of Steel Gear Stable. No weapons seem at first, and also you solely purchase them after going up the elevator. Inserting weapons on the very begin will trigger gamers to select them up and begin killing enemies, so we consciously determined to not try this. However that half turned out to be unpopular, with some individuals saying they could not rise up the elevator. Nonetheless, we needed to design Steel Gear Stable in order that gamers realized how stealth works. For Steel Gear Stable 2, we made it a little bit simpler to make use of weapons and purpose at particular elements utilizing a POV angle, as many gamers had been already conscious of stealth video games.
It was the identical for Dying Stranding. There aren’t many video games about supply, so we first needed to get individuals accustomed to it first. For the sequel, we needed to permit gamers that need to combat to take action extra freely. Gamers can use weapons, and it is now simpler to drive automobiles and bikes. For the story, the primary recreation was about Sam and Cliff, however this time one of many fundamental themes is Lou and what her existence means.
IGN: Dying Stranding depicts deeply emotional themes resembling loss and sorrow. Are these based mostly by yourself experiences?
Kojima: About half of what I create is predicated on actual experiences, whereas the opposite half is predicated on fictional experiences. Themes like the place individuals go once they die come from a really personal place.
IGN: What made you select Mexico and Australia as new places for Dying Stranding 2?
Kojima: I can’t say an excessive amount of, however to start with, Mexico is contiguous to the UCA, and there was a necessity to hook up with neighboring cities. As Sam says many occasions, it is doable that it might result in an invasion. Within the first recreation, gamers linked America from east to west. This does mirror the pioneer age, however are we going to do the identical factor when making the sequel? My preliminary thought was to do one thing utterly completely different, which was a narrative about chopping off connections. However doing that will imply reusing the setting and surroundings of the primary recreation.
My thought course of was that we wanted a continent that is about as lengthy throughout as North America that faces the ocean to each the north and south. Eurasia can be too massive, and Africa wasn’t proper both. After serious about it, I made a decision on Australia. I got here up with the idea of Plate Gate as a determined measure getting used to attach it. We might doubtlessly carry on creating sequels if we use this method, however there are not any plans to make any.
IGN: Why did you resolve so as to add the idea of there being each evening and day?
Kojima: We did this in Steel Gear Stable V: The Phantom Ache as properly, however I needed to correctly embody the passage of time in an open world. Gazing on the sky because the solar rises and units is one thing that couldn’t been carried out within the first recreation, partly as a result of engine-related causes, but it surely’s been put into the sequel.
Night time scenes had been far too darkish at first, so we modified quite a bit in terms of lighting. Cutscene lighting adjustments relying on the time of day too. It wasn’t straightforward constructing a recreation that would account for that. There are occasions after I need to use film-like backlighting in particular scenes, however this can be a recreation, not a film. What’s being seen will change based mostly on the participant. I would personally such as you to play sure cutscenes at evening, but it surely’s positive for those who see them at one other time of the day too.
We additionally included the choice to go to mattress and await the morning earlier than leaving. That is one thing we have been positive to incorporate as a result of I think about there might be gamers that do not need to journey at evening. Steel Gear Stable V had a system the place you might smoke to advance time, however this recreation does it in additional pure methods, like going again to mattress in a personal room after waking up as soon as.
IGN: It felt as if there’s an emphasis on strategic fight in Dying Stranding 2. What sort of impact did this transformation have on the sport’s design and storytelling?
Kojima: It isn’t that I am merely pushing fight. The sport remains to be basically about cargo supply, however fight has turn into extra versatile. Gamers have the selection to take a detour round enemies or use a automotive or motorbike in order to not encounter them. This does imply there is a want for brand new weapons as properly, although. Among the workers on Dying Stranding 2 labored with me on the Steel Gear collection, so there have been occasions when individuals frightened that it was getting a little bit Steel Gear-ish. My private clarification for it’s that we merely pursued extra fulfilling fight. That is truly linked to the theme of “we should always not have linked.”
This even pertains to warfare. Our world right this moment is linked by a rope that’s the web. However on the identical time there’s battle happening on the earth. We in the end cannot join to one another in innocent and inoffensive methods alone. Higgs tells you that ropes on their very own usually are not sufficient. Perhaps we additionally want sticks to attach with each other. The story retains on progressing in that route. That doesn’t imply that you’ll be pressured into stealth. I do not even use stealth myself.
The Social Strand System and the way it connects to real-life social media
IGN: Had been you ever stunned by what gamers did with the Social Strand System within the first recreation? In that case, how did that have an effect on the manufacturing of Dying Stranding 2?
Kojima: Whether or not gamers would actually use the Social Strand System or not was an unknown to us. After I play the sport myself, I exploit ladders and make bridges, however I don’t construct any of the highways; I simply use what another person made. That is why I used to be involved if individuals would actually make roads themselves when the sport got here out, but it surely turned out that lots of people did nothing however that. That was a nice
shock for me. I needed to make it possible for the sequel would have extra fascinating issues to do for these gamers as properly. The monorail is one such component. One level of debate inside the crew when making the primary recreation was likes. They are not a type of foreign money, and so they do not make you stronger. Workers members reacted negatively to that, however I positioned significance on how good it feels to obtain likes even
in the event that they haven’t any worth, much like how that feels in actual life. It is a unusual recreation design selection, . However even the workers members who had been in opposition to it at first ended up being happy by the implementation in the long run.
We do not know the way techniques like these might be acquired till the sport truly comes out and we see everybody’s reactions. For the Director’s Reduce, we took a have a look at participant information and determined what to remake based mostly on the factors for enchancment we discovered there. This sequel is being developed based mostly on the participant behaviour. Personally, although, I needed gamers to place down their cargo extra typically once they
combat. Even after we had individuals check the sport out, plenty of them tended to consider that they’d lose their cargo since that will occur in the true world, however we did not make many adjustments to that a part of the sport throughout that point.
IGN: You might be recognized to be energetic on social media, but it surely appeared as if there was a shift in theme between these two video games. The primary Dying Stranding was about individuals connecting, whereas Dying Stranding 2 asks if we actually needs to be linked.
Kojima: Dying Stranding was developed earlier than the pandemic. There have been actions towards division on the time resembling the UK leaving the EU, and so each its story and gameplay had been created based mostly on my ideas on that in that point. However then Covid began three months after making the sport, and I used to be really shocked.
Now within the twenty first century, although, we now have the Chiral Community… which is to say the web. Spanish flu struck within the early twentieth century, however we had been in a position to survive this time as a result of we had been linked by the web. We began working remotely, whereas live shows and dwell occasions vanished. We had no selection however to depend on the Web. Youngsters could not go to high school or play and needed to stare at screens all day. I believe we did not have another selection on the time. You’d activate the TV and listen to about how the metaverse was the subsequent massive factor, however that is not how human communication works. You do not meet individuals by probability that method.
IGN: So in different phrases, your ideas about social media have modified, and that is being mirrored on this title?
Kojima: This will sound unusual, however I made the primary recreation based mostly on the theme of, “We’re in peril of being divided and remoted, so let’s join.” Then Covid hit after it got here out. After truly experiencing that, I felt that possibly it’s not such factor to attach a lot. That feeling is foreshadowed in numerous completely different scenes and settings, together with “the stick and the rope.” I believe there are parts that gamers
will solely perceive as soon as they attain the tip of the sport. What I felt through the pandemic is sort of strongly mirrored inside this title.
The brand for the primary Dying Stranding options strands dangling beneath the brand. These are supposed to characterize connection, however the strands dangle from above the brand for the second recreation. It’s form of like the brand for The Godfather. This is applicable to Dollman too, and you will find enemies dangling from strands for those who go to the weapons manufacturing facility as properly. I added plenty of moments that can make gamers conscious of the presence of various strands. If you actually give it some thought, what does it imply to be linked? I hope you will play the sport when it comes out on the finish of June. You have all gone by means of Covid, so there needs to be one thing to resonate with for everybody.
Casting and Collaborating with Artists
IGN: How did you method and discover new forged members for Dying Stranding 2?
Kojima: As we present you within the opening, Fragile reveals up when Sam and Lou reside collectively. That was one thing I wrote whereas we had been nonetheless making the earlier recreation. I informed Léa (Seydoux) in January 2020 that I needed her to look within the sequel. However because of the pandemic, we had been unable to file, resulting in a delay on the time. No less than we had been in a position to launch the PC model and the Director’s Reduce throughout that interval.
Since this recreation was made through the pandemic, the method took 4 to 5 years. This entails scanning and digitizing, selecting costumes, and extra. It isn’t as if we are able to shoot all the pieces in a single three-month interval like a movie. It needed to be carried out at common intervals whereas making all the pieces else, and it is fairly powerful work. What determines whether or not you may work with somebody in this type of scenario is your mutual bond. I begin with the individuals I like, the individuals who I prefer to see in movies, and the individuals I need to work with. I’m going and meet these individuals immediately. We’ll find yourself figuring out one another for some time, and so over the course of getting meals with them and such I can resolve whether or not or not I need work with them, and that is after I’d determine the main points by means of their agent.
Lindsay Wagner, who performed Amelie, is somebody I liked since I used to be younger, however a youthful workers member accountable for her (CG) information did not know who she was. They mentioned that as they noticed her face every day, although, they ended up changing into a fan. In actual fact, by the point manufacturing was nearing its finish, that they had purchased the Blu-rays for The Bionic Lady. In order that’s how I choose the actors. I do auditions generally, as properly, but it surely’s extra in regards to the connection. It’s the identical for OD, Physint, and different initiatives, too.
IGN: Are there any forged performances in Dying Stranding 2 that you simply like specifically?
Kojima: That must be Neil and Lucy. Neil is performed by Luca (Marinelli), and I truly made a remark selling Martin Eden, which he is in. After I did that, Luca emailed me in English himself, saying that he had been a fan of mine since he was younger and that he’d learn what I wrote.
This may most likely let down followers of Mads (Mikkelsen), but it surely would not be proper for Cliff to return within the sequel as a result of his story has already come to an finish. Which means I wanted to forged somebody who can surpass his efficiency, although I questioned if that’s even doable. That is after I considered Luca and made him a proposal. On the time I used to be looking for somebody who might play Lucy as a counterpart to
Neil, just for Luca to ask if I had already selected his companion. After I mentioned no, he advised his spouse. His spouse, Alissa Jung, is not simply an actress but in addition a movie director. After I met her in individual, she appeared excellent to play a counsellor and so I provided her the function.
As soon as we ended up filming Neil and Lucy’s scenes, most of them concerned the 2 characters on their very own, which was form of fascinating. Luca is a stage actor as properly, whereas Alissa is an actress and movie director. There have been occasions once they tried to place me apart and direct themselves!
You want lots of people when working in a efficiency seize studio, resembling make-up artists, record-keeping workers, and extra. They had been all spellbound throughout Neiland Lucy’s scenes. That had by no means occurred earlier than, which matches to point out simply how wonderful the scenes we captured had been.
IGN: How did your collaboration with Woodkid, whose music is included within the recreation, come about?
Kojima: After I was on my method again to my resort throughout a January 2020 journey to Paris, I used to be launched to Woodkid as a musician who was a fan of mine. He requested if I’d hearken to the music he was engaged on. The music was Goliath, and it was unimaginable. The music hadn’t come out but, and I fell in love along with his music from then on.
After I returned to Japan and watched his music movies, I used to be shocked to see a world that includes beach-like surroundings and whales, similar to Dying Stranding’s. Ryan Karazija, the frontman of Low Roar who I collaborated with within the earlier recreation, had handed away and I did not know what to do for the sequel’s music, however after I provided that function to Woodkid he gladly accepted it.
Identical to I used to be frightened about who would substitute Mads, I used to be frightened in regards to the music, and I’ve gotten texts asking if it is actually doable to create a musical expertise higher than Low Roar’s. It was acquired very properly worldwide, and Woodkid mentioned to me for the primary time that he truly had felt immense stress that individuals would say they don’t prefer it and reject him as a result of it wasn’t Low Roar, however he was assured after seeing the optimistic response.
IGN: How do you go about choosing which songs to make use of in a recreation? How a lot of your private style in music is mirrored in that?
Kojima: Just like the earlier recreation, I’ve requested Ludvig Forssell to deal with the soundtrack. After all, Woodkid’s songs are in there, too. I choose musicians who I hearken to and luxuriate in usually. Much like casting, I contact them immediately and get permission to make use of their music, or they’re going to let me know that they need to write a brand new music for me that I then use.
IGN: What was probably the most rewarding a part of creating Dying Stranding 2?
Kojima: I wrote the proposal for this recreation whereas remoted through the pandemic and labored on it with individuals whose faces I could not see for probably the most half, solely actually assembly Yoji Shinkawa as soon as per week. I think about the identical went for any studio. If we will not all collect and we will not shoot, what ought to we do? However even below these circumstances, I used to be lucky to have everybody’s assist as we made progress on the
recreation.
I would say it was round 2021 after we severely started efficiency seize work. However I wasn’t allowed to go to the Los Angeles studio on the time and needed to join there remotely from Tokyo to direct the actors there. I used my smartphone, my iPad, and every kind of cameras, however directing remotely actually did drive me mad.
Simply after I did not know what to do, somebody from Sony HQ let me borrow two window-like displays that make two-way voice communication doable, which allowed me to discover a technique to file. It nonetheless wasn’t straightforward, although. When somebody’s working proper subsequent to you, you are in a position to make discoveries and realizations about what to do. However for those who’re working totally distant, there are plenty of occasions when the timing
or particulars of a report get delayed. Even when somebody makes a mistake, it is not seen straight away. Nonetheless, I believe we’ll discover a technique to make it safely over the end line. On the time, I actually thought that it would not be doable to finish the sport. So what has been probably the most rewarding? I believe I’m simply actually blissful that we are able to end making the sport.
IGN: Thanks in your time.
Photograph by Lorne Thomson/Redferns.
Wesley is the UK Information Editor for IGN. Discover him on Twitter at @wyp100. You’ll be able to attain Wesley at wesley_yinpoole@ign.com or confidentially at wyp100@proton.me.
